Iain Dale has asked if the Lib Dems are the "Anti-Israel party" and I have to say I agree with him that the Lib Dems are becoming the anti Israel party and they is nothing wrong with that. The Lib Dems are a party that have called for Israel on many occasions in the last week to stop the slaughtering in Palestine, but is anyone listening?
The Conservatives are too busy supporting Israel with Iain Dale blogging till his soul leaves his body to support Israel. At least the Lib Dems are speaking out about the issue and are calling upon the EU and other organisations to stop dealing with Israel till they end the slaughtering of innocent people.
I support any calls upon the Israeli's whether they come from MEP's or MP's but I do not support people who are just sitting back and watching this disgusting behaviour by the Israeli's!
Update: IT WAS A SLIP OF THE TONGUE AND I WAS MEANT TO SAY ISRAELI'S
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15 comments:
"by the Jews"
Surely that should be "by the Israelis". I don't condemn "the Shiites" every time the Iranian government does something I dislike.
Slips like these readily descend into the kind of violent anti-semitism we have already seen.
Your comments are far from liberal and reveal your intolerance of the only democracy in that part of the world.
Where were the Lib Dem calls to the EU and other organisations to refuse to deal with Hamas when they were slaughtering Fatah members in Gaza? Or when Hamas were lobbing thousands of rockets into Israel in the hope of killing so many of 'the Jews' that you pejoratively refer to?
Where are the Lib Dem condemnations of Hamas for deliberately locating rocket launch sites and explosives around UN buildings populated with civilians? Yet you call the Israeli response to repeated terror attacks disgusting? That is rich indeed.
A motto for terrorists since the days of the Baader-Meinhof Gang has been "the worse it gets, the better it is". When fighting against a democracy such as Israel... terrorist organisations benefit hugely from the outrage caused by negative images beamed around the world. That is why Hamas has ordered its rockets to be fired from hospitals, kindergartens and mosques in the hope of Israeli retaliation against civilians. It's foul but it works. The Israeli Defence Force does all in its power to minimise damage to the innocent, knowing the simplistic way in which parts of the media - including the BBC and ABC- react means that Hamas's tactics will not get as much airtime as Israel's response.
Of course the images from Gaza of appalling suffering, of children particularly, are harrowing. It is somewhat trite to say the terror felt by those involved is unimaginable; it is precisely because we can imagine it and conceive of how we would feel with our own children or those of friends and family put in that position that we are so horrified.
But while the argument is constantly made by pro-Palestinians that it is the Israelis who need to learn from history and change their behaviour accordingly, the truth is surely the other way round.
The strategising of various Palestinian leaderships and their continued reliance on extremism has got their people nowhere, except lives of misery in refugee camps, unhelped by their oil-rich Arab cousins. And was a people ever more incompetently led? Moderation would be much more likely to win the day. So, recognise Israel, drive out the terrorists, build a Palestinian state and live in peace next door to the Jewish state.
In contrast, Israel and Jews beyond its borders drew exactly the correct lessons from history, that the good opinion of the world had done the Jews no good in the past and provided zero defence against those who sought genocide. The Israeli state would need to be muscular, militarily prepared, eternally vigilant and equipped with the most robust intelligence services on the face of the earth. And so it has been. Yes it has made mistakes, but only a fraction of those made by dictatorships elsewhere in the region which have the temerity to criticise Israel's human rights record while sponsoring terrorists themselves.
Irfan,
The fact is we are not an 'Anti-Israel' party. We are rightly opposed to Israel's current military actions but not it's right to exist as a nation and its right to security (a right the Gazans also enjoy). In terms of you condemning the Jews I am afraid I have to take as much exception is I did to the earlier comments inveighing against the 'the Zionists'.
Many Jews are opposed to Israel's current actions and there are many organisations within Israel itself that campaign against it's governments policies (Peace Now springs to mind).......knowing you quite well I am sure you did not intend to come across in this way and it was just a slip...
The war between Palestine and Israel is a holy war and people need to remember that otherwise a solution will never take place.
The war is between the Jews and the Muslims and if religion was not brought into this war then maybe it would have ended many, many years ago.
When the Jews were attacked by Hitler because of their religion and looks they fled to Palestine and now the Muslim and Jews of Palestine are fighting holy wars.
"One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist". That is what is happening here. The Muslim's look at Hamas as freedom fighters and the people of Israel look at the IDF as freedom fighters but for each other both parties are terrorists.
Irfan,
I cannot agree. How do you explain the many Jews that oppose the policy of the Israeli state??
Irfan,
Also, how do you explain the fact that a sizeable number of Palestinians are Christian not Muslim???
As usual, only one side is being sween by you. Let me ask you - does Israel have any right to exist? If so, then where?
It should exist but the leader of Israel need to remember the people of Palestine whose land it originally was. They need to make a peace deal in which the people of Palestine are happy then they is no problem
When one of the two which ever that may be starts to take control of land that will cause the problems and has been doing...
Irfan,
I'm glad to see you have updated your blog about the tounge slip. It happens to us all and in my comments section I have just admitted to a minor one in my discussion with Oranjepan.
The first thing I have to say is that an settlement must of course be just and provide the Palestinian's with a viable nation-state which supports them being able to live, exist and prosper. However, it cannot right the wrongs of Israel's formation completly. It is not the job of a negotiated peace to correct historical problems...
However, I do think on balance Israel probably should except the 'Right of Return' which a) probably won't be much taken up in any case and b) would be important symbolically.
By the way, Lebanon is a democracy and Hamas were elected democratically.
"They need to make a peace deal in which the people of Palestine are happy then they is no problem"
Given that the leaders of "they" would only be happy with Israels total destruction. Just what are you arguing for here?
So it was a slip of the tongue but then you immediately write that "the jews" are fighting with the muslims... which is the same thing!
I'm against the current attacks but that doesn't mean tolerating this sort of thing. Hamas may have been elected democratically but they then murdered the opposition- that rather loses your mandate in my eyes.
Irfan,
Your comment of yesterday suggests you believe the Jewish population of Israel descends largely from European victims of Hitler. My understanding is that there are about as many who descend from the Jewish population which was once scattered across the Muslim world, and they didn't all leave on an entirely voluntary basis.
Darrel mentions that a sizeable number of Palestinians are Christians, yes, but a lot less sizeable than was the case. The Christian minorities in the Muslim world have suffered greatly from the growing intolerance of Islam. This has resulted in a mass exodus on a similar scale to Jews entering Palestine.
So, Irfan, if you can get as uptight about the growing intolerance of your co-religionists and how they are oppressing minorities when they are in power, perhaps you might get listened to with more respect when you defend them.
The sad thing is that Islam needn't be like that - the presence of these minorities show it once had a record of tolerance at a time when most of Europe was horrendously inolterant of minority religions.
Asearch of your blog regarding 'Hamas' shows clearly your position. Statements like "Hamas might have started the rocket launching and I agree they shouldn't have but Israel is going a little to far with all these invasions"
Might have? ... is it too difficult for you to say 'they did'? Even Hamas have no problem with that.
Then we have ...
"One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter
This is a phrase that needs to be remembered. The British government among many other western governments sees Hamas as a terrorist organisation and I believe this is one of the major problems behind this whole issue. If western countries were to remove Hamas of their terrorist organisation lists and start talking to Hamas then maybe this problem would get sorted out"
No mention at all of Arab condemnation of Hamas???
You really should invest in a cherry picking business ... you'd make a fortune.
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